Dr Joe Dispenza tells Claire Gillman how he is using scientific measurements to help us understand the effects of spirituality more fully.
Claire Gillman: Your new book is called Becoming Supernatural: How Common People Are Doing the Uncommon. This is quite a bold and intriguing title for a book. What do you mean by becoming supernatural?
Dr. Joe: Well, when I started measuring different people in the meditative state five years ago, we were just looking to see if people would have changes in brain states as a result of say a healing or some type of shift in their personal, internal states. But in the last three years, we started capturing measurements in the brain, the heart, gene expression, neurotransmitters, telomeres and general energy that really are outside of convention. And I think when you start seeing measurements like that that are outside of convention, that it verges on supernatural. It’s not natural.
We started capturing very specific objective changes that were happening in a person during their subjective experience. And it’s not just happening in people that are trained as Buddhist monks or holy men, scholars, academics, or nuns of 40 years of devotion. These are common people (some of them never even meditated in their lives before) which makes it really exciting.
I just happened to capture some of those really abnormal and supernatural measurements. And they’re correlated with specific healings that take place in one instant; breakthroughs and personal transformation, mystical experiences.
And we’re at the point now that we can actually predict when that experience is going to happen. And at the same time, we can induce it because we’ve studied it enough now to know what systems are in place to make it happen.
CG: How did you decide on which measurements you were going to take?
Dr. Joe: I have a team of researchers and scientists. We don’t have a lab that we work in. We run an event. We run what’s called an advanced workshop which runs from Wednesday to Sunday. For example, we may measure a person’s brain when they come in to the event on Wednesday, and we get a baseline measurement. We measure their brain on task. We measure their brain during meditation. We measure their brain just sitting there doing nothing. And then, they go through five days of intense training. And then, we re-measure their brain at the end, and compare the pre- and the post-scan. I want to know that the changes weren’t just taking place in their mind; they’re taking place in their brain.
We’ve also measured people’s brains during the meditative process in real time. I want to know if they’re getting beyond the analytical mind. I want to know if they’re getting beyond their identity. I want to know what systems begin to function more coherently in the brain or what systems don’t. I want to know what words I say at certain times that will induce certain states in the brain.
And so, we’ve got a ton of information about how to teach it better. But what we decided, we know that it takes a coherent brain or a clear intention combined with an elevated emotion (which is usually a heart-centered emotion) that really begins to have an effect on matter. So why not measure coherent hearts and teach people how to sustain those states not just for two minutes or five minutes, but to regulate internal states independent of the conditions in their external environment, and tell them “you’re doing it” or “actually, you’re not doing it.” Feedback lets us know if we’re doing it or not.
Correlating with that, we know that stress hormones elevate when we react to conditions in our life. It suppresses our immune system. So why not see if we can do the reverse? Let’s see if we can have a person, while they’re feeling an elevated state in creating heart coherence and we’re measuring it, if their immune system response goes up and their cortisol levels go down—it takes a gene to turn down, to reduce cortisol levels, and a gene to turn up to make the proper immune function and new proteins. And we’ve proven that that’s possible.
CG: In the book, there are miracles happening in these groups. So, is today’s science possibly giving us the explanations for miracles that we have read about in the ancient sacred texts, would you say?
Dr. Joe: In traditional, conventional science and medicine there is no understanding for spontaneous remission or a miraculous healing or a quantum healing, whatever you want to call it. But my passion and my interest is really to bridge the gap between that inner event that the person’s having and the expression of it outwardly objectively.
While our model keeps evolving, every time we give people information, and they can understand it, the information — and we blend a little quantum physics with a little neuroscience with a little neuroendocrinology with a little psychoneuroimmunology or epigenetics — all of those sciences point the finger at possibility.
When people understand that, they understand it from an intellectual, philosophical, theoretical standpoint, then the next step is for them to turn to the person next to them and explain it. If they can explain that information, it’s wired in their brain. Now, they’re building a model of understanding, and they’re installing the neurological hardware in their brain in preparation for an experience.
So then if you set up the conditions and the environment and give people the proper instruction, then a certain percentage of those people get their behaviors to match their intentions or their actions equal to their thoughts, they get their mind and body working together, they are going to have some type of change or transformation, some type of new experience. So, my interest is measuring that transformation.
Once I measure the transformation, and I interpret it, now I have more information, a better understanding of how to teach the transformation. So then if I can measure that transformation again, now I have more information to teach transformation. And we start to close the gap between knowledge and experience.
And my interest really is not only demystifying it, but being able to induce it. Once you’re able to induce it, now you’re looking at trends. You’re looking at something that’s repeatable. Now you’re talking about science.
So, a spontaneous remission here and there, most physicians or scientists say, “We don’t have an understanding of really how that happens because it was spontaneous.” But maybe it’s not so spontaneous after all. Maybe there is a formula that’s taking place. And we’re trying to decode that formula so that it’s reproducible.
CG: You offer lots of tools to help people once they become more aware to keep on that path. Meditation actually is one of the principal ones in the book. So, why specifically is meditation so powerful a tool for us?
Dr. Joe: Well, I could talk for two hours about it, but the short version is… When we live by the hormones of stress—and that’s 70% of the time for most people—chemicals of stress put us in survival. And in survival, you put all of your attention on your body. When you’re out of balance, when you’re in survival, you put all of your attention on your environment. And what is your environment made of? People, objects, things, places, and time.
And when you’re putting your attention on time when you’re in survival, you’re trying to forecast the future based on the past and predict a known so you feel safe. So, the body, the environment this time is where all our attention is.
Our research shows that when you take your attention off your body, you become nobody. You take your attention off the people in your life, you become no one. You take your attention off your cellphone and your computer and the things you own, you’re nothing. You take your attention off the place you need to go, you’re nowhere. If you take your attention off time, you’re in no time. That’s the moment you begin to become pure consciousness. And that’s what meditation is about, getting beyond yourself.
And so, what separates the conscious mind from the subconscious mind is the analytical mind. When you’re meditating and you slow your brain waves down, you’re actually moving out of the conscious mind into the operating system where those unwanted habits and behaviors exist. And now you can begin to reprogram them right in the operating system.
If you’re doing it with your eyes open, you’re typically distracted. So, if you close your eyes, and you disconnect from the environment, you play soft music in the background, you’re not connected to your environment. You’re not getting up and eating anything or smelling anything or tasting anything or experiencing anything, so you’re not feeling, so then you’re not thinking about your schedule or what happened yesterday. You’re in the present moment.
The transcendent moment of getting beyond your body, your environment and time causes you now to begin to have your inner world to become more real than your outer world. And if you’re going to heal your body by thought alone, if you want to create some new experience in your life by thought alone, if you’re going to change your identity by thought alone, if you’re going to create some new future by thought alone, then you’ve got to become thought alone. And you’ve got to really, really sit with that.
And now we know how to induce that state. We now know how to teach people how to regulate that state. And we now know how to teach people how to sustain that state. So, our students are getting very good at slipping into that state in a very short amount of time.
Clara: As a scientist, where do you think becoming supernatural can take us? What are the possibilities for human consciousness?
Dr. Joe: Well, I think people will be healthier. I think they’ll rely less on things outside of them to change their internal state. That’s just conditioning. I think they’ll be able to create better lives for themselves. I think they’ll experience—we know they’ll experience greater levels of love and joy and freedom in their life because they’re trading suffering and pain and fear for gratitude, joy and freedom. And they’re regulating those states. They’re practicing those states during meditation. So, it begins to become familiar to them. They’re installing new circuits in their brain for leadership, for a love for life, for being more unlimited. And if you install those circuits in your brain in the meditation, you’ll think that way, and you’ll act that way.
I think that the biggest lie that we’ve ever been told is that we’re linear beings living a linear life. We are dimensional beings living a dimensional life. And when people start waking up to that, I think they’re less controllable. I think their values change. And they’re more interested in discovering more about themselves.
CG: I’ve heard you talk before and you talk about the soul which isn’t normal vocabulary in the science world. How do your scientific colleagues respond to this?
Dr. Joe: Well, it depends if we’re standing in front of an audience or having a glass of wine.
I mean, to me, the soul is just a spiritual brain. That’s what it is. It’s what we take with us when we leave singularity, the unified field, and we venture down into density. And that’s what connects us back to that unified field, that singularity, that oneness point—our soul.
And our soul is recording all of the experiences that we have. It’s the book. And when we make our way back, the wisdom that we gain along the way, we actually contribute back to the mind of God. We contribute back to the quantum field, the field of information. And then, it means that God gets to know itself a little bit better.
CG: What comes through your book is that doing something for others is very important to you. So, is that what motivates you to continue with your research and your writing?
Dr. Joe: Well, really, I’m a mission-driven person. And the reason I’m mission-driven is because we’re seeing changes in people’s lives. We have evidence that it’s possible. And the surf is up! You can’t not ride a wave when this is happening.
I think the greatest feeling for me, the greatest moment for me, is being a part of witnessing transformation. When you see a person who’s been diagnosed with leukemia or Hashimoto’s syndrome or rheumatoid arthritis or MS or cancer, and they’ve done the work, and they’re standing in front of an audience of people saying, “I did the work. It took me two years. But now, I’m cancer-free…. I don’t have MS anymore… I have no symptoms… all my pain is gone,” that’s a living example of truth. And it speaks to people’s potential.
And they don’t look like a movie star. They’re not all slim and buffed. And they’re all not white, and they’re all not men. This is a merging, a mixing of culture and races and people that we’ve been conditioned into belief we’re separate from.
I’m a mission-driven person. And as I said to my eldest son the other day, I’ll never get tired of this because one person actually is evidence that it’s possible for all of us.“
We have had a breakthrough in the last two years. And that breakthrough in consciousness is in the field. It’s easier for other people to tap into it now. People are experiencing less separation from the divine aspect of themselves. They’re are able to execute greater results in shorter amounts of time because the separation between two points of consciousness creates time. So, as you get closer to the consciousness of that unified field, the less separation between two points of consciousness means there’s less time. So things start showing up in a person’s life a lot faster. And gosh, darn it, that momentum is starting to take place, and I can’t take my finger off the pulse at this point because it’s too exciting.
Clara: This work has global potential. It is not specifically for one nation or one group of people. This can be adopted by anyone, right?
Dr. Joe: I have seen transformation in every race, every skin color, every sexual preference, every age. It doesn’t matter! I mean, nobody is so special to be excluded from this phenomena. And that’s what makes it great.
Find out more: drjoedispenza.com